Posted by Jason on January 02, 1997 at 00:14:29:
In Reply to: Re: Carl Sagan posted by Amanda on January 01, 1997 at 02:08:38:
: Just a comment on that last bit. I agree that atheists handing out hate material due to anit-religious beliefs is wrong but I don't think that all anti-religious material can be considered wrong. I consider myself not only a non-religious type but also an anit-religious type because I believe it does a lot of harm to soceity and humankind. I disagree with Sagan's comment that he made once concerning his opinion that we should just leave religion alone and if we can't be kind then be silent. I believe there is a middle groud that could do a lot of good and examples of such are the writings of Bertrand Russell and William Fielding - even Nietzsche to an extent. I do try not to attack people personally but I do attack religion and I try to do this in an intelligent manner with as much respect and kindness that is appropriate. Humanism has many aspects - my feeling is that everyone would be better off without religion. If you can show me where I might be wrong - please do.
I probably touched on a major point of contension in the humanist/freethought
movement. That is, to what extent should we be pro-human vs. anti-religious? I
agree that religion certainly has its fair share of dogmatism and harm. We see
things like cults, pseudoscience, hatred, war, healing frauds, etc... But there
are many secular forms of harm, credulity, and dogmatism as well. An example
would be Stalinism. Stalinism is a secular system but it was responsible for a
host of atrocities, persecution, and even pseudoscience (Stalin supported the
Lysenkoism fiasco).
In the case of religion, although there are many Christians endorsing things
like the Christian Coalition and young-earth creationism, there are many
enlightened Christians who are more than happy to stand with us against them.
Religion can certainly be harmful but it can be beneficial as well. Many
religious people, including some friends of mine, are actively volunteering
for the community. Many churches are involved in social justice causes (for
example, things like human rights, environment, 3rd world aid, social security,
and even things like fighting creationism, fighting the religious right,
and supporting abortion rights). Overall, I think the enemy is not religion,
but dogmatism. And we should oppose dogmatism in whatever form it may have,
whether religious or secular.
I'm not sure if you live in the USA, but perhaps there is more anti-religious
sentiment because fundamentalism is widespread there. Here in Canada, religious
fundamentalists aren't as commonplace. And when I do find fundamentalists,
they're not as pushy and their beliefs are even watered down a bit.
Finally, this is off topic, but is there any truth to the claim that Madalyn
Murray O'Hair tried to defect to the USSR once?
- Jason